From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Mon Aug 2 04:54:28 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA19833; Mon, 2 Aug 93 04:53:14 -0700 Received: from frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA19829; Mon, 2 Aug 93 04:53:09 -0700 Received: from doc.ic.ac.uk by frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <29462-0@frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk>; Mon, 2 Aug 1993 12:55:10 +0100 From: Matthias Radestock Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 12:55:06 BST Message-Id: <13753.9308021155@gummo.doc.ic.ac.uk> Received: from water.doc.ic.ac.uk by gummo.doc.ic.ac.uk; Mon, 2 Aug 93 12:55:06 BST To: jitr Subject: The Children Of Lir Status: OR THE CHILDREN OF LIR an Irish fairytaly told by Sinead O'Connor It's the story of a man called Lir, the High King of Ireland, who married a woman called Eva. They had four children. The eldest child was a daughter called Finnoula. The next was a boy called Aodhi. Lir was very much in love with his wife, and they both loved their children. Then Eva died giving birth to twin boys, Fiachra and Conn, and Lir after his grief, got married again, to Eva's younger sister, whose name was Aoife. She was very jealous of Lir's love of his children. When he went away to battle, she took the children out to Lake Devarragh. She told them to go into the water and swim, put a curse on them and turned them into four swans. According to the curse, the swans were to sail for a period of 900 years, 300 years in each of three different oceans. With each 300 years, it would get worse, more stormy and isolated. Although the curse was intented to last for 900 years, it would end at the time the first Christian bells were heard ringing in Ireland. And the swans would regain their human form when a princess from the north of Ireland got married to a prince from the south of Ireland. Then the curse would be over. Although they were not in human form, one thing the swans could do was sing. They had the most beautiful voices ever heard in Ireland, and people came from all over the country to hear them. They could only sing at night. In the daytime they had to fly off. When Lir got back and found out the children had been turned into swans, he went to Aoife's father, a lower king, and her father turned her into a creature of the night. For the first 300 years Lir went to hear the children singing. But one day they had to say goodbye to their father, and they never saw him again. Off they went for the next 300 years on a very, very rough sea, with often terrible storms. There was one particular bad storm, during which the children got separated from each other. It lasted for a whole night. In the morning, Finnoula and two of her brothers were found alive and well. The youngest twin was lost. And so Finnoula sang. She kept singing and hoping he'd hear her voice. He finally did come back, after a long time, and it was her voice that helped him find his way back. During this second 300-year period they flew back to see their old home and when they got there, their castle was all in ruins. They went off to the Sea Of Moyle for the last 300 years. One day they heard bells ringing and saw land. They went to the shore where they met a monk. He made friends with them. He came to the shore every day and taught them about Christ and life until they finally accepted fully Christianity and its essential principle of unconditional love. They heard the news the priest told them about a princess getting married to a prince from the south of Ireland. The swans shed their forms and immediately became as old as their years. They died straight away. They were buried standing up, with the oldest boy under one of Finnoula's arms and the eldest twin under her other arm. The one who'd been lost was facing her. This was how she protected them during the storm. It's very important that people try to understand the symbolism of the story, on an individual level, because it's about healing. Lir stands for Ireland, Eva his mirror image, the children are the four provinces of Ireland and Aoife is England. The death of Eva symbolises the fading away of the goddess of religion. Aoife's jealousy and curse stands for England's desire to control and rape Ireland. The Irish lost themselves, just as a person loses himself or herself through child abuse, and assumes a false self in order to survive. The swans stand for ascension, which is the process through which a false self is built, the sea equals consciousness and the 900 years is a period in the history of Ireland. Singing is the symbol of a prayer. In the daytime, subconsciously, the swans were so messed ip that thet didn't know there was anything wrong. Healing took place when they followed their instincts and sang - ie. prayed. The baby brother lost in the storm stands for Northern Ireland. We're wasting our time to think that anthing like fund-raising or political rallying or marching is going to slove the problem. We have to be the children we're supposed to be. We have to understand and forgive. We have to apply the principle of unconditional love. There has to be forgiveness for what was done, understanding and knowledge of the truth of our histories as races and people. We'll love each unconditionally, cos we'll understand each other. When those things happen the lost brother will come home.. The reason why one child was lost is becasue the whole family was cursed. Northern Ireland is only a part of Ireland's problem. The whole country is an agony. The only possible thing which can stop the curse is love. Christianity is the most important part of the whole story. Christianity is the symbol of the principle of loving each other unconditionally, the way a mother and father loves a child, embodying the principle of compassion. Christ is often depicted as a phoenix - death and rebirth. Death and rebirth is a process which has to take place in order for the true self to be retrieved. The false self which you have had to built up in order to survive has to die. One finds one's own true self after going trough the painful experience of death - the death of the false self. And how that takes place is by learning to love oneself unconditionally and by expressing one's pain by crying out. Ireland is only the microcosm. This is the story of the whole human race. What we're hearing are the first Christian bells, it's happening now. The bells have already been rung. THE CHILDREN OF LIR ARE SHEDDING THEIR SKINS. -------- Peace, Matthias -- Matthias Radestock E-mail: mr3@doc.ic.ac.uk Dept. of Computing, Imperial College Anon-mail: anon-2199@twwells.com 180 Queen's Gate Talk: mr3@water.doc.ic.ac.uk London SW7 2BZ IRC-nickname: Emperor United Kingdom Phone: +44-71-589-5111 x 5092 From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Mon Aug 9 01:33:02 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA03285; Mon, 9 Aug 93 01:29:59 -0700 Received: from zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA03281; Mon, 9 Aug 93 01:29:50 -0700 Message-Id: <9308090829.AA03281@presto.ig.com> Received: from bt-web.bt.co.uk by zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk via DECnet inbound channel id ; Mon, 9 Aug 1993 09:27:56 +0100 X-Vms-To: R11F::PRESTO.IG.COM::JITR To: jitr From: katz_p_m Subject: One for the discography Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 09:27:56 +0100 Status: OR I don't know if Jason Boarman is still keeping the discography current, but on Saturday I picked up a CD single by Willie Nelson which is "a duet with Sinead O'Connor" and is a version of Peter Gabriel's _Don't Give Up_. It's on Columbia, the catalogue number is 659350 2 and the other tracks (without Sinead :-( ) are _Still is still moving to me_ and _Valentine_. Time is 6:59. Producer was Don Was and all tracks are taken from the album _Across the Borderline_ (COL 472942). This was a promo, so I don't know if it is on general release (though I suspect the album will be available at your favourite C&W shop). Philip ~~~~~~ From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Mon Aug 9 02:06:07 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA03505; Mon, 9 Aug 93 02:03:59 -0700 Received: from [155.198.191.2] by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA03501; Mon, 9 Aug 93 02:03:56 -0700 Received: from doc.ic.ac.uk by swan.doc.ic.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <13225-0@swan.doc.ic.ac.uk>; Mon, 9 Aug 1993 10:03:49 +0100 From: Matthias Radestock Date: Mon, 9 Aug 93 10:03:46 BST Message-Id: <29241.9308090903@gummo.doc.ic.ac.uk> Received: from water.doc.ic.ac.uk by gummo.doc.ic.ac.uk; Mon, 9 Aug 93 10:03:46 BST To: jitr Subject: Re: Don't give up Status: OR It's on general release, at least here in the UK. I bought it at HMV two weeks ago. Love it. Matthias. From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Mon Aug 9 14:18:02 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA10476; Mon, 9 Aug 93 14:16:42 -0700 Received: from rpi.edu by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA10472; Mon, 9 Aug 93 14:16:37 -0700 Received: from client.its.rpi.edu (rebecca.its.rpi.edu) by rpi.edu (4.1/SMHUB41); id AA13648; Mon, 9 Aug 93 17:16:28 EDT for jitr@presto.ig.com Received: by client.its.rpi.edu (4.1/SUB16); id AA16900; Mon, 9 Aug 93 17:16:38 EDT for jitr@presto.ig.com Message-Id: <9308092116.AA16900@client.its.rpi.edu> To: jitr Subject: Re: One for the discography Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1993 17:16:38 -0400 From: Ron Buckmire Status: OR On Monday, August 9 1993, katz_p_m wrote: > I don't know if Jason Boarman is still keeping the discography > current, but on Saturday I picked up a CD single by Willie Nelson > which is "a duet with Sinead O'Connor" and is a version of Peter > Gabriel's _Don't Give Up_. It's on Columbia, the catalogue number is > 659350 2 and the other tracks (without Sinead :-( ) are _Still is > still moving to me_ and _Valentine_. Time is 6:59. Producer was Don > Was and all tracks are taken from the album _Across the Borderline_ > (COL 472942). > I heard about this recording but dismissed it as a sick joke. Why would Sinead record THAT SONG [which is one of my all-time faves, as it was my introduction to the Great Kate Bush] with WILLIE NELSON of all people? Ugh. So, how does it sound? --- RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``Stonewall25: 6/26/94'' uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910 The Human Rights Campaign Fund reports that they have a budget of $4 500 000 and that they gave $680 000 to candidates last year. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE REST? From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Thu Aug 12 14:45:05 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA15524; Thu, 12 Aug 93 14:42:55 -0700 Received: from mond1.ccrc.uga.edu by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA15520; Thu, 12 Aug 93 14:42:52 -0700 Received: by mond1.ccrc.uga.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA02706; Thu, 12 Aug 93 17:38:44 -0400 Message-Id: <9308122138.AA02706@mond1.ccrc.uga.edu> To: jitr Subject: FrEE aLTeRnaTiVe MusIc InFo Date: Thu, 12 Aug 93 17:38:43 -0400 From: silva@mond1.ccrc.uga.edu X-Mts: smtp Status: OR **************************************************************************** ||||||||||||||| QRM - The aLTeRnaTiVe Online Music Publication ||||||||||||| **************************************************************************** QrM, can be your new source of aLTeRnaTiVe music info! For over two years QRM has covered the best of what's new and happening in the reaLm of cutting edge music in the hardcopy world, and now we've made the cYBeR leap into the InterneT. To be featured in the AuG issue: Interviews with: The Fall Bjork (formerly of the Sugarcubes...) Smashing Pumpkins The Fluid OMD Stereolab Unrest Pennywise Radiohead Concert coverage of: Porno for Pyros LoLLaPoLooZa 93 The Noisy Land tour (New Zealand bands) and SCADS of reviews of new releases. So do it. Increase your hip quotient by a factor of ten with a few well placed clicks of your mouse. Just send your e-mail address to QRM (silva@mond1.ccrc.uga.edu) and look for our premiere issue towards the end of the month. QRM, sorta like SPIN/Rolling Stone/Alternative Press without the $3 cover charge. Oh yeah, and without the pictures...but were working on that! From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Mon Aug 16 17:36:34 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA25709; Mon, 16 Aug 93 17:35:31 -0700 Received: from condor.CC.UMontreal.CA by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA25705; Mon, 16 Aug 93 17:35:27 -0700 Received: from eole.ERE.UMontreal.CA by condor.CC.UMontreal.CA with SMTP id AA09856 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for jump-in-the-river@presto.ig.com); Mon, 16 Aug 1993 20:33:48 -0400 Received: from brise.ERE.UMontreal.CA by eole.ERE.UMontreal.CA (920330.SGI/5.17) id AA16648; Mon, 16 Aug 93 20:33:47 -0400 Received: by brise.ERE.UMontreal.CA (920330.SGI/5.17) id AA23722; Mon, 16 Aug 93 20:33:46 -0400 From: dionf@ere.umontreal.ca (Francois Dion) Message-Id: <9308170033.AA23722@brise.ERE.UMontreal.CA> Subject: About the 1-900 thing... To: jump-in-the-river Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 20:33:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 717 Status: OR This is clearly abuse of the anon service... it is also against the netiquette to post when not on the list and also to do publicity for a business. I'd suggest to people on the list to send a note to the postmaster at penet.fi to let him know of this. He can retrace the sender with the RFC-422 header that anon.penet.fi stripped (but saved, i'm sure). Ciao, -- Francois Dion ' _ _ _ CISM (_) (_) _) FM Montreal , Canada Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA (_) / . _) 10000 Watts Telephone no: (514) 343-7511 _______________________________________________________________________________ Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-... From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Mon Aug 16 17:38:55 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA25735; Mon, 16 Aug 93 17:37:47 -0700 Received: from sethsfolly.llnl.gov by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA25731; Mon, 16 Aug 93 17:37:45 -0700 Received: by sethsfolly.llnl.gov (4.1/1.15) id AA00232; Mon, 16 Aug 93 17:33:55 PDT Date: Mon, 16 Aug 93 17:33:55 PDT From: abrahams@sethsfolly.llnl.gov (Seth Abrahams) Message-Id: <9308170033.AA00232@sethsfolly.llnl.gov> To: dionf@ere.umontreal.ca, jump-in-the-river Subject: Re: About the 1-900 thing... Status: OR All ready taken care of Seth From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Mon Aug 16 17:40:44 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA25750; Mon, 16 Aug 93 17:39:43 -0700 Received: from remus.rutgers.edu by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA25746; Mon, 16 Aug 93 17:39:40 -0700 Received: by remus.rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.5/3.08) id AA29048; Mon, 16 Aug 93 20:39:35 EDT Date: Mon, 16 Aug 93 20:39:35 EDT From: ficara@remus.rutgers.edu (Ken Ficara) Message-Id: <9308170039.AA29048@remus.rutgers.edu> To: an18462@anon.penet.fi Cc: jump-in-the-river In-Reply-To: <9308170022.AA16696@anon.penet.fi> "an18462@anon.penet.fi" Subject: Re: **** MEET 100's OF WOMEN & MEN! Status: OR Oh great, welcome to the commercialization of the Internet. Cheap slimy morons in poleyester suits selling 900 numbers on (of all places) the Sinead list. Ken Ficara ficara@remus.rutgers.edu Compuserve: 71311,1461 / AOL: KENFICARA / Prodigy:(NOT!) From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Mon Aug 16 17:47:50 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA25806; Mon, 16 Aug 93 17:46:46 -0700 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA25781; Mon, 16 Aug 93 17:43:06 -0700 Message-Id: <9308170043.AA25781@presto.ig.com> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 93 17:43:04 -0800 From: mcb@presto.ig.com (Michael C. Berch) Subject: Inappropriate use of the list To: jitr Status: OR Some of you may have received a message from an anonymous posting service, with a subject line of "**** MEET 100's OF WOMEN & MEN!" This person is not a member of the list, and the message seems to be targeted indiscriminately to a large number of Internet lists. Thanks to a phone call from someone on the list I was able to catch it and de-queue it before it was delivered to everybody. I am sorry for the interruption, and I will contact the admin of the PENET anonymous server and report this mis-use. (The admin of the service is someone I know, and I support the service; please don't add to the problems he is facing by mailbombing the anonymous user and/or the PENET admin.) -- Michael C. Berch Jump-in-the-River Moderator jitr-request@presto.ig.com From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Tue Aug 17 01:22:30 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA28156; Tue, 17 Aug 93 01:21:16 -0700 Received: from swan.doc.ic.ac.uk by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA28152; Tue, 17 Aug 93 01:21:12 -0700 Received: from doc.ic.ac.uk by swan.doc.ic.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <24557-0@swan.doc.ic.ac.uk>; Tue, 17 Aug 1993 09:21:06 +0100 From: Matthias Radestock Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 09:21:03 BST Message-Id: <17814.9308170821@gummo.doc.ic.ac.uk> Received: from water.doc.ic.ac.uk by gummo.doc.ic.ac.uk; Tue, 17 Aug 93 09:21:03 BST To: jitr Subject: TOP-10-FEMALE ARTISTS POLL Status: OR There's currently a Top-10-female-artists-poll going on at rec.music.misc Sinead ranks at #15 at the moment. We want to change this, don't we? :-) So either post your top-10 as followup to the newsgroup article or (in case you haven't got news access) send it to pap3dam@cabell.vcu.edu votes are counted with #1=100pts, #2=90pts,etc. HM(Honorable Mention)=5pts. Your mail should look something like this (apart from #1 all subject to change :-) ----- 1. Sinead O'Connor 2. Tori Amos 3. Happy Rhodes 4. Kate Bush 5. Enya 6. Annie Lennox 7. Anne Clark 8. Loreena McKennit 9. Suzanne Vega 10. Harriet Wheeler HM: Nicola Hitchcock, Neneh Cherry ----- Matthias. -- Matthias Radestock E-mail: mr3@doc.ic.ac.uk Dept. of Computing, Imperial College Anon-mail: anon-2199@twwells.com 180 Queen's Gate Talk: mr3@water.doc.ic.ac.uk London SW7 2BZ IRC-nickname: Emperor United Kingdom Phone: +44-71-589-5111 x 5092 From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Mon Aug 23 08:45:29 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA22346; Mon, 23 Aug 93 08:43:16 -0700 Received: from pol90a.polito.it by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA22337; Mon, 23 Aug 93 08:43:02 -0700 Received: from AG-IN by polito.it (PMDF #3020 ) id <01H239LQR8LS8ZE922@polito.it>; Mon, 23 Aug 1993 17:38:01 GMT+1 Received: from uds01.uds01 (uds01-gw) by agr04.st.it (PMDF #3020 ) id <01H23BEV679S0002V2@agr04.st.it>; Mon, 23 Aug 1993 16:48:02 DST Received: by uds01.uds01 (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06281; Mon, 23 Aug 93 16:38:15 +0200 Date: 23 Aug 1993 16:38:15 +0200 From: netad@uds01.unix.st.it (NetAdvertiser) Subject: The Net ADvertiser To: jump-in-the-river Message-Id: <9308231438.AA06281@uds01.uds01> X-Envelope-To: jump-in-the-river@presto.ig.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: OR ***************************************************************************** Are you trying to sell your car, your home, your drums, your whole Jimi Hendrix's bootlegs collection? 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For any information, subscription and submission write to: netad@uds01.unix.st.it. ***************************************************************************** From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Mon Aug 23 17:10:31 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA28342; Mon, 23 Aug 93 17:09:12 -0700 Received: from remus.rutgers.edu by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA28338; Mon, 23 Aug 93 17:09:10 -0700 Received: by remus.rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.5/3.08) id AA20341; Mon, 23 Aug 93 20:09:03 EDT Date: Mon, 23 Aug 93 20:09:03 EDT From: ficara@remus.rutgers.edu (Ken Ficara) Message-Id: <9308240009.AA20341@remus.rutgers.edu> To: uctpa08@ucl.ac.uk Cc: van@death.corp.sun.com, jitr In-Reply-To: <9308231841.AA84949@link-1.ts.bcc.ac.uk> "uctpa08@ucl.ac.uk" Subject: Re: Madame George Status: OR Now I have a followup question about Van Morrison's "Madame George." I'm not sure if you folks on the Van list are familiar with this song (this question involves Sinead O'Connor, so I'm posting it to both lists...) but Sinead's song "Black Boys On Mopeds" has a line saying "England's not the mythical land of Madame George and roses/It's the home of police who kill black boys on mopeds...". I'm wondering if she and Van are both making a historical reference to something I don't recognize, or if she's referring to the Van song (in which case I don't understand the "mythical" part). I am certain that Sinead is aware of the song because she has expressed a great deal of admiration for Van over the years, so I'm wondering what everyone's ideas on this lyric are. Ken Ficara ficara@remus.rutgers.edu Compuserve: 71311,1461 / AOL: KENFICARA / Prodigy:(NOT!)