From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Wed Mar 10 08:24:55 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA05386; Wed, 10 Mar 93 07:56:03 -0800 Received: from frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA05374; Wed, 10 Mar 93 07:55:18 -0800 Received: from localhost by frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <23247-0@frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk>; Wed, 10 Mar 1993 15:56:19 +0000 To: jitr Subject: Sunday Tribune Column Date: Wed, 10 Mar 93 15:56:10 GMT From: Matthias Radestock Message-Id: <"frigate.do.249:10.02.93.15.56.21"@doc.ic.ac.uk> Status: OR In this week's issue of the NME they write that Sinead might possibly become a columnist for the Dublin-based "Sunday Tribune". As usual some nasty comments (calling Sinead illiterate etc.) had been added -- they're probably just jealous :). However, the whole thing sounded a bit too fictionary to me. Together with the fact that NME is not very reliable anyway (I think I said this in all my previous mails where I quoted NME) this makes it very likley for the information to be false. Matthias --------------------------------------------------------------- Matthias Radestock rade@freia.inf.tu-dresden.de mr3@doc.ic.ac.uk --------------------------------------------------------------- "Someone told me being in the know is the main thing We all need the security that belonging brings Can't stand on your own in these times against all the odds You all just fall behind like all the other sods" --Joy Division "Novelty"-- From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Fri Mar 12 02:56:58 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA04031; Fri, 12 Mar 93 02:36:15 -0800 Received: from frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA04025; Fri, 12 Mar 93 02:35:30 -0800 Received: from localhost by frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <12233-0@frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk>; Fri, 12 Mar 1993 10:36:44 +0000 To: jitr Subject: Good news Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 10:36:33 GMT From: Matthias Radestock Message-Id: <"frigate.do.235:12.02.93.10.36.50"@doc.ic.ac.uk> Status: OR There is further evidence that Sinead is going to release a new album with her own songs later on this year. This was first suggested by the interviewer in the HotPress interview last December. As far as I know no interview goes to print without Sinead reading it in its final version. Meanwhile, in the latest issue of HotPress, they come up with this again. HotPress is by far the most reliable source of information (at least regarding Irish artists). It has also be confirmed that Sinead is going to write the music for the movie "Proved Innocent" which will be shot this autumn. Matthias --------------------------------------------------------------- Matthias Radestock rade@freia.inf.tu-dresden.de mr3@doc.ic.ac.uk --------------------------------------------------------------- "The dying are the lovers of this modern world, the power and the glory survives." --Anne Clark "Nothing At All"-- From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Sun Mar 14 22:48:56 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA17584; Sun, 14 Mar 93 22:44:54 -0800 Received: from uhura.cc.rochester.edu by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA17580; Sun, 14 Mar 93 22:44:51 -0800 Received: by uhura.cc.rochester.edu (4.1/1.16) id AA11317; Mon, 15 Mar 93 01:45:30 EST Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 01:45:30 EST From: Leonidas Hepis Message-Id: <9303150645.AA11317@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> To: jitr Subject: A Sinead t-shirt? Status: OR Summer is coming and I was wondering where I could get a Sinead O' Connor t-shirt from. Any ideas? Is anyone interested to make any "Fight the Real Enemy" t-shirts? It should have (at the back) a torn picture of the pope, with the triampant face |--------| | | | | <--- Area of Sinead O' Connor's face with that /| | subtle smile of pleasure that she has... / | | / | |\ / \ |--------| \ \ / \ / \ <-- area of the pope's torn picture (we don't \ / \ / really have to show his face... \/\__ \ / FIGHT THE REAL ENEMY -leo From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Mon Mar 15 05:54:19 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA20285; Mon, 15 Mar 93 05:53:31 -0800 Received: from corp.tva.com by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA20281; Mon, 15 Mar 93 05:53:27 -0800 Received: from mail.tva.com by corp.tva.com with SMTP (16.8/16.2) id AA13502; Mon, 15 Mar 93 08:55:22 -0500 Received: from cc:Mail by mail.tva.com (1.30/SMTPLink) id A05241; Mon, 15 Mar 93 08:59:54 EST Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 08:59:54 EST From: Chris Conlon Message-Id: <9303150859.A05241@mail.tva.com> To: jitr Subject: re: A Sinead t-shirt? (flames > /dev/null) Status: OR Hi everybody, leo sez... >Is anyone interested to make any "Fight the Real Enemy" t-shirts? It should >have (at the back) a torn picture of the pope, with the triampant face Well, I know I'm gonna get roasted for this one, but... YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES!!!!! Whoever makes 'em, sign me up for 2! (sorry, got a little carried away there, what with jumping up and down on my desk and all. and i hadn't realized that i was shouting *quite* as loud as i apparently was... ;-) ) Anyway, if you don't like my opinion, you can just write me off as a bitter ex-Catholic. ObSinead content: Has anyone heard any more about the (possible) new album that Matthias mentioned a few days ago? I looked for the latest Hot Press, but Tower didn't have any. cheers, chris From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Mon Mar 15 08:02:58 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA21200; Mon, 15 Mar 93 08:01:53 -0800 Received: from frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA21196; Mon, 15 Mar 93 08:01:50 -0800 Received: from localhost by frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <09113-0@frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk>; Mon, 15 Mar 1993 16:02:58 +0000 To: jitr Subject: Willie Nelson Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 16:02:47 GMT From: Matthias Radestock Message-Id: <"frigate.do.123:15.02.93.16.03.07"@doc.ic.ac.uk> Status: OR Next week will see the release of Willie Nelson's new album. I've just read an article in Newsweek, where Willie explains how it came to the collaboration with Sinead and all the other famous artists. Quite interesting, as it is closely related to the MSG incident. So watch out for this album. The Newsweek article sounded very promising indeed. Matthias --------------------------------------------------------------- Matthias Radestock rade@freia.inf.tu-dresden.de mr3@doc.ic.ac.uk --------------------------------------------------------------- From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Mon Mar 15 10:26:36 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA23458; Mon, 15 Mar 93 10:24:47 -0800 Received: from magellan.geo.usherb.ca by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA23452; Mon, 15 Mar 93 10:24:41 -0800 Received: by magellan.geo.usherb.ca (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA17644; Mon, 15 Mar 1993 13:22:13 -0500 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 13:22:13 -0500 From: hgwyn@magellan.geo.usherb.ca (Hugh Gwyn) Message-Id: <9303151822.AA17644@magellan.geo.usherb.ca> To: conlonc@mail.tva.com Subject: re: A Sinead t-shirt? (flames > /dev/null) Cc: jitr Status: OR I, too, desire the discused Sinead shirt. If a source becomes available, maybe the finder should post us. (The finder will probably post us anyway) I am a bitter anarchist and enjoy knoking peoples firmly held beliefs. Not that I think that the Pope is the Great Big Bad Wolf or some such, but that it's time people realize that someone who condemes homosexuals, descriminats against women, is head of a totalitarian hiarchy (mis-spelling), promotes ignorence and hatred against our own bodies...(I'm leaving some out, I know but I thought maybe I should not flame the Pope to bad, or my post will be sent to /dev/null [heh heh]) Refutal please. (Maybe this will sir things up.) H'fsu (Which is G'day if your hands are placed one key to the left on your keyboard and you don't notice.) Philip Gwyn From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Tue Mar 16 02:25:01 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA03648; Tue, 16 Mar 93 02:13:05 -0800 Received: from frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA03644; Tue, 16 Mar 93 02:13:02 -0800 Received: from localhost by frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <22717-0@frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk>; Tue, 16 Mar 1993 10:13:48 +0000 To: jitr Subject: re: A Sinead t-shirt? (flames > /dev/null) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 93 10:13:38 GMT From: Matthias Radestock Message-Id: <"frigate.do.738:16.02.93.10.13.57"@doc.ic.ac.uk> Status: OR Well, I'm sure Sinead wouldn't particulary like this idea. Wearing a t-shirt against the Pope - OK, but a t-shirt with Sinead's face on it- that's some sort of idolizing. I have so far resisted the temptation to buy any posters of her - exactly for the same reason. Matthias --------------------------------------------------------------- Matthias Radestock rade@freia.inf.tu-dresden.de mr3@doc.ic.ac.uk --------------------------------------------------------------- "We are being sedated by the gasoline fumes and hypnotized by the satellites into believing what is good and what is right." --The The "The Beat(en) Generation"-- From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Tue Mar 16 09:57:10 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA07261; Tue, 16 Mar 93 09:54:53 -0800 Received: from corp.tva.com by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA07256; Tue, 16 Mar 93 09:54:49 -0800 Received: from mail.tva.com by corp.tva.com with SMTP (16.8/16.2) id AA20296; Tue, 16 Mar 93 12:56:46 -0500 Received: from cc:Mail by mail.tva.com (1.30/SMTPLink) id A05333; Tue, 16 Mar 93 13:01:48 EST Date: Tue, 16 Mar 93 13:01:48 EST From: Chris Conlon Message-Id: <9303161301.A05333@mail.tva.com> To: jitr Subject: idolizing question Status: OR >Well, I'm sure Sinead wouldn't particulary like this idea. Wearing a >t-shirt against the Pope - OK, but a t-shirt with Sinead's face on >it- that's some sort of idolizing. I have so far resisted the >temptation to buy any posters of her - exactly for the same reason. Ok, now I'm kinda curious. Has Sinead come out against this sort of 'idolizing' specifically, maybe in an interview? I'm not doubting this, and it does seem in character for her, I just hadn't heard this yet. (Now i feel bad 'cause I almost bought a poster of her; i would've except i didn't think it was that great... And I actually have and *wear* a Siouxsie T-shirt... oops.) --Chris >Matthias ------ "Hire and Fire your Idols" - author forgotten, sorry, please don't sue me. From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Tue Mar 16 11:55:24 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA08981; Tue, 16 Mar 93 11:53:40 -0800 Received: from magellan.geo.usherb.ca by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA08977; Tue, 16 Mar 93 11:53:35 -0800 Received: by magellan.geo.usherb.ca (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA15252; Tue, 16 Mar 1993 14:52:05 -0500 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1993 14:52:05 -0500 From: hgwyn@magellan.geo.usherb.ca (Hugh Gwyn) Message-Id: <9303161952.AA15252@magellan.geo.usherb.ca> To: jitr Subject: T-shirts as idolatry? Status: OR T-shirts as idolizing? What! T-shirts are clothing and, in my case, personal decorations, a sort of temporary tattoo. A have a genuine Sinead t-shirt, and have worn it for years. This way people know I really enjoy her music, and that I agree with her. Is wearing a peace t-shirt idolizing peace. This brings us the a third point: t-shirts as a social 'club membership' card. Here in Quebec, all mini-punks must own a Berurier Noir shirt or a Sex Pistols shirt. Even though I think these groups are great, I will steer clear of people who were these shirts, because they rarely know what Berurier Noir really stand for. Inversely, I have struck up conversations with people just because I was wearing the aforementioned Sinead shirt. And, if you where to ask me, buying a Sinead shirt is better than buying a Roots (pathetic) shirt. It's like giving your money to someone you believe in. Truth be told, all my 'music-idolizing' t-shirts are of bands I've opened gigs for. (Except the Sinead shirt.) And then there are posters. Why not decorate your room with an image of someone you like? Better that then blank walls. (Acctually, I have an affinity for blank walls, but that's another story.) Seems to me idolizing is more in the mind and possessions (with are theft anyway, heh) are just secondary. Someone idolizes a singer/group, but doesn't buy a bi-product (t-shirt/poster/bio) is still idolizing. All this to say that I don't think t-shirts are idolatry per se. H'fsu (Which is G'day shifted right on your keyboard.) Philip Gwyn From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Wed Mar 17 01:56:27 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA16699; Wed, 17 Mar 93 01:54:59 -0800 Received: from frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA16695; Wed, 17 Mar 93 01:54:57 -0800 Received: from localhost by frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <01549-0@frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk>; Wed, 17 Mar 1993 09:55:59 +0000 To: jitr Subject: Re: idolizing question In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 16 Mar 93 13:01:48 EST." <9303161301.A05333@mail.tva.com> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 09:55:52 GMT From: Matthias Radestock Message-Id: <"frigate.do.552:17.02.93.09.56.07"@doc.ic.ac.uk> Status: OR >Ok, now I'm kinda curious. Has Sinead come out against this sort of >'idolizing' specifically, maybe in an interview? I'm not doubting >this, and it does seem in character for her. I talked to her management about JITR last December. In order to explain to non-computing people what it is, I said "It's some sort of fan club". I should not have said this, but anyway. The immeadiate response was: "Sorry, but I'm afraid Sinead doesn't want to have a fan club at this stage". Maybe they just said this to get rid of me, but I also thought: It's probably true, it does seem in character for her. Furthermore: when I met her last November, of course everybody in the crowd new that this was Sinead O'Connor (and most of them even liked her music). And still she could walk around without people asking her for autographs. There were few people (like me) who talked to her or expressed their support with a gesture in her direction - everybody seemed to have realized that she doesn't wanted to be treated as a star. And she really enjoyed this. The question remains, whether wearing a t-shirt is idolizing. I say yes, because people don't know WHY you wear this shirt. They might think it's just because you like her music or anything what she does and says - and that's idolizing. You have to express that you like THE idea, not HER idea (it's not her ideas after all). The idea has to be in the center, not the person. In this sense the proposed t-shirt might be OK. The tearing up of the picture is the main theme and not the person who did it. The first thing what people have to recognize is the Pope and not Sinead. Matthias --------------------------------------------------------------- Matthias Radestock rade@freia.inf.tu-dresden.de mr3@doc.ic.ac.uk --------------------------------------------------------------- "Someone told me being in the know is the main thing We all need the security that belonging brings Can't stand on your own in these times against all the odds You all just fall behind like all the other sods" --Joy Division "Novelty"-- From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Thu Mar 18 03:35:33 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA00796; Thu, 18 Mar 93 03:33:32 -0800 Received: from frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA00792; Thu, 18 Mar 93 03:33:21 -0800 Received: from localhost by frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <15003-0@frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk>; Thu, 18 Mar 1993 11:34:30 +0000 To: jitr Subject: record news Date: Thu, 18 Mar 93 11:34:12 GMT From: Matthias Radestock Message-Id: <"frigate.do.010:18.02.93.11.34.37"@doc.ic.ac.uk> Status: OR The single of the Peace Together project (see my posting a couple of weeks ago) - "Be Still" will be released on May 4. Again it's a cover version performed by Sinead O'Connor. A album, featuring Sinead again, will follow in June. Also Marxman are going to release their first album, with Sinead singing backing vocals for the song "Ship Ahoi". The Willie Nelson album "Across the Borderline" features her singing Peter Gabriel's "Don't give Up" along with Willie. I also contacted Ensign Records today, and asked them whether they could confirm the rumours about a new SOC album. Well, they couldn't (I guessed that), but from the course of the talk I'm tempted to deduce that there are plans. The person I spoke to had to ask somebody else before she gave me the answer, which was: "We have no such plans at the moment, but if you leave your phone number we'll keep you informed" - which sounds to me like "We can't reveal any details yet". Matthias --------------------------------------------------------------- Matthias Radestock rade@freia.inf.tu-dresden.de mr3@doc.ic.ac.uk --------------------------------------------------------------- "'Fun' is a word invented by advertising executives to sell soft drinks." --Jah Wobble-- From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Mon Mar 22 06:29:52 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA12072; Mon, 22 Mar 93 06:26:58 -0800 Received: from nd.edu by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA12068; Mon, 22 Mar 93 06:26:56 -0800 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 06:26:56 -0800 Message-Id: <9303221426.AA12068@presto.ig.com> Received: from mac28.debartolo.lab.nd.edu by nd.edu id aa03.22-092828:20027; 22 Mar 93 9:28 EST X-Organization: University of Notre Dame To: jump-in-the-river From: michael.t.zimmer@nd.edu X-Sender: michael.t.zimmer.2@pop.nd.edu Subject: test Status: OR Just testing the path. michael zimmer (recovering catholic) From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Mon Mar 22 15:58:41 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA19481; Mon, 22 Mar 93 15:55:13 -0800 Received: from ULTRIX.UOR.EDU by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA19474; Mon, 22 Mar 93 15:55:10 -0800 Received: by ultrix.uor.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA16082; Mon, 22 Mar 93 15:48:43 -0800 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 15:44:32 -0800 (PST) From: April Burns Subject: JITR To: Sinead list Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: OR Hi, i'm new to the list and wondered if anyone knew where I could find the version of JITR that contains the line "I don't smile when I cum." I've only heard it once a couple of years ago, and must find it. Thanx for any assistance. April From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Mon Mar 22 16:42:57 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA20141; Mon, 22 Mar 93 16:39:30 -0800 Received: from netcom2.netcom.com by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA20137; Mon, 22 Mar 93 16:39:27 -0800 Received: by netcom2.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id AA26296; Mon, 22 Mar 93 16:41:05 -0800 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 16:41:05 -0800 From: slf@netcom.com (Sharon Fisher) Message-Id: <9303230041.AA26296@netcom2.netcom.com> To: saaprilb@ultrix.uor.edu Cc: jump-in-the-river In-Reply-To: April Burns's message of Mon, 22 Mar 1993 15:44:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: JITR Status: OR Hi, i'm new to the list and wondered if anyone knew where I could find the version of JITR that contains the line "I don't smile when I cum." I've only heard it once a couple of years ago, and must find it. Thanx for any assistance. April It is a CD single with Karen Finley called Jump in the River/Jump. Good luck finding it. Basically it has the standard Jump in the River, followed by a Karen Finley work over the same rhythm section as JitR. From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Tue Mar 23 05:51:43 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA25273; Tue, 23 Mar 93 05:50:39 -0800 Received: from seismo.CSS.GOV by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA25269; Tue, 23 Mar 93 05:50:37 -0800 Received: from beno.CSS.GOV by seismo.CSS.GOV (5.65/1.14) id AA13582; Tue, 23 Mar 93 08:52:22 -0500 Received: by beno.CSS.GOV (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08002; Tue, 23 Mar 93 08:52:21 EST Message-Id: <9303231352.AA08002@beno.CSS.GOV> To: jitr Subject: sinead reprise on snl this saturday Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1993 08:52:20 -0500 From: David Comay Status: OR according to last week's broadcast, saturday night live on march 27th will be repeating the show hosted by tim robbins and featuring sinead as musical guest. i believe this is last year's show in which sinead performed her astounding version of bob marley's `war'. it will be interesting to see if they run that part of the show as well as the picture-shredding at the end of the song. dsc `taste is the enemy of art' From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Wed Mar 24 16:33:30 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA20185; Wed, 24 Mar 93 16:30:52 -0800 Received: from nd.edu by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA20181; Wed, 24 Mar 93 16:30:49 -0800 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 16:30:49 -0800 Message-Id: <9303250030.AA20181@presto.ig.com> Received: from mac41.debartolo.lab.nd.edu by nd.edu id aa03.24-192504:10495; 24 Mar 93 19:25 EST X-Organization: University of Notre Dame To: jump-in-the-river From: michael.t.zimmer@nd.edu X-Sender: michael.t.zimmer.2@pop.nd.edu Subject: test--general distribution Status: OR >Of course I agree with you that the Church is one of the most sexist >institutions you will ever come across, but I always thought that this was >a fault that would be rectified eventually. For example, The Church of >Scotland have had female ministers for years and the Anglican Church >recently began to ordain females. How long can it be before the Catholic >church follows suit? Change comes from within, right? I wonder how the >Church is ever going to be modernised if all the people that feel strongly >about these issues leave, as you did. Like I said, I left because I didn't >believe in God any more. I would still like to see the Church dragged into >the 20th century though, even if the rest of us are in the 21st by then. > >I think homosexuals are far more discriminated against than women in the >Church but again, maybe they'll come around eventually. If they don't the >Church is going to have an even more serious credibility crisis on their >hands. Thanks for the input, but I cannot share your optimism concerning the ordination of women in the Catholic church. IMHO, it will *never* happen as long as some guy in Rome is in charge. Nevertheless, I don't feel women's ordination should be the forefront of their concerns. Compared the situation to women's suffrage. Once the men in charge decided to let women vote, the feminist movement died out for over 50 years. My guess is that the male politicians predicted this to happen. I feel the same concerning ordination: once women are ordained, the fight will stop. The fact is, much more is needed. How about the grossly patriarchal system of the church! How about the *only* female role model being both an immaculate virgin and the perfect mother! Again, thanks for your thoughts, and don't think that I'm attacking you; these are just my random thoughts. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael T. Zimmer (a recovering catholic) University of Notre Dame michael.zimmer@nd.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Just keep yelling until you attract a crowd, then a constituency, a movement, a faction, an army! If you don't have any solutions, become a part of the problem! From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Thu Mar 25 13:54:11 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA01863; Thu, 25 Mar 93 13:47:23 -0800 Received: from seismo.CSS.GOV by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA01858; Thu, 25 Mar 93 13:47:18 -0800 Received: from beno.CSS.GOV by seismo.CSS.GOV (5.65/1.14) id AA05918; Thu, 25 Mar 93 16:49:01 -0500 Received: by beno.CSS.GOV (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24035; Thu, 25 Mar 93 16:48:59 EST Message-Id: <9303252148.AA24035@beno.CSS.GOV> To: jitr Subject: more on this saturday night's broadcast Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1993 16:48:57 -0500 From: David Comay Status: OR `everywhere is war' according to wednesday's washington post, the rebroadcast of last year's saturday night live broadcast with sinead as the musical guest will not include the take of bob marley's `war' in which she tore up a picture of the pope at the end of the song. instead, it will be the take from the rehearsal that day in which something else happens at the end of song (i won't say what - watch the broadcast or if you can't for some reason (overseas?), send me email and i'll let you know). if the rehearsal take of `war' is anything like the one originally broadcast (even ignoring what sinead does & says at the end of the song), it should be worth watching & taping. dsc `there's a lot of things, if i could, i'd rearrange' From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Thu Mar 25 19:58:17 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA01715; Thu, 25 Mar 93 19:55:33 -0800 Received: from nd.edu by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA01711; Thu, 25 Mar 93 19:55:31 -0800 Message-Id: <9303260355.AA01711@presto.ig.com> Received: from mac21.debartolo.lab.nd.edu by nd.edu id aa03.25-225705:19116; 25 Mar 93 22:57 EST X-Organization: University of Notre Dame Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1993 22:57:08 -0500 To: jump-in-the-river From: michael.t.zimmer@nd.edu X-Sender: michael.t.zimmer.2@pop.nd.edu Subject: rebroadcast Status: OR Pertaining to NBC's decision to broadcast a different version of 'War': CENSORSHIP IS UN-AMERICAN!! imho ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael T. Zimmer (a recovering catholic) University of Notre Dame michael.zimmer@nd.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Just keep yelling until you attract a crowd, then a constituency, a movement, a faction, an army! If you don't have any solutions, become a part of the problem! From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Fri Mar 26 00:39:51 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA03072; Fri, 26 Mar 93 00:38:43 -0800 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA03060; Fri, 26 Mar 93 00:35:23 -0800 Message-Id: <9303260835.AA03060@presto.ig.com> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 00:35:22 -0800 From: mcb@presto.ig.com (Michael C. Berch) Subject: Sinead in Peter Gabriel video To: jitr Status: OR Just saw Peter Gabriel's new video for "Blood of Eden" on MTV -- Sinead sings backing vocals on the recording, but the video is much more of a duet. PG is in a blue suit and tie throughout, while Sinead appears and disappears, in the garb of priestess, demon, lover, and finally bride. There are also some rather strange shaven-headed children at the beginning, somewhat Sineadlike in appearance, in the garb of a laborer, a business man (tie, no shirt!), and a judge or priest. The video has some interesting special effects, including Sinead's face morphing into PG's and back again (wow), and it's an exceptionally pretty song, as well. I don't know if this was the official premiere or not, but I have not seen it before, and I watch MTV's "Alternative Nation" relatively regularly, and this was the lead video. (Unfortunately I tuned in about 30 seconds after the beginning, and missed any lead-in.) -- Michael C. Berch mcb@presto.ig.com / mcb@net.bio.net From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Fri Mar 26 10:15:11 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA07718; Fri, 26 Mar 93 10:13:39 -0800 Received: from soldev.tti.com by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA07714; Fri, 26 Mar 93 10:13:35 -0800 Received: by soldev.tti.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11179; Fri, 26 Mar 93 10:15:27 PST Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 10:15:27 PST From: terence@tti.com (Terence Davis) Message-Id: <9303261815.AA11179@soldev.tti.com> To: jump-in-the-river Subject: JITR w/Karen Finley Status: OR This message is really directed to April Burns. The CD you want is indeed "Jump In The River". The catalog number is ENYCD 618, released in 1988. There's also a vinyl version, ENYX 618, with the same cover and artwork but I didn't get a chance to verify the lyrics. Although I do remember being unsure of it's acceptance by others so I didn't play it for people very often unless I was sure they'd not take offense. The CD and vinyl have a cover of sinead sitting on the ground dressed in jeans, leather jacket and her black shoes/boots. Inside there's a picture of, I guess, Karen Finley wearing a T-shirt in what looks like a bathroom or cellar. Hope this helps. Terry From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Sat Mar 27 11:05:33 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA19436; Sat, 27 Mar 93 11:03:09 -0800 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA19432; Sat, 27 Mar 93 11:03:06 -0800 Received: from spool.uu.net (via LOCALHOST.UU.NET) by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA11905; Sat, 27 Mar 93 14:05:05 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 93 14:05:05 -0500 Message-Id: <9303271905.AA11905@relay2.UU.NET> Received: from bitsko.UUCP by spool.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL (queueing-rmail) id 140428.7941; Sat, 27 Mar 1993 14:04:28 EST From: ken@bitsko.slc.ut.us (Ken MacLeod) Subject: Re: sinead reprise on snl this saturday References: <9303231352.AA08002@beno.CSS.GOV> Organization: Bitsko's Bar & Grill, Public Access, Salt Lake City, Utah, USA To: jitr Content-Type: text Content-Length: 413 Status: OR > i believe this is last year's show in which sinead >performed her astounding version of bob marley's `war'. it will be >interesting to see if they run that part of the show as well as the >picture-shredding at the end of the song. A comment on a local radio morning show yesterday said they were "dubbing" in a clip from a rehearsal, they didn't know whether it was the whole song or just the picture part. From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Tue Mar 30 03:06:25 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA14534; Tue, 30 Mar 93 03:04:03 -0800 Received: from frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA14530; Tue, 30 Mar 93 03:04:00 -0800 Received: from localhost by frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <08290-0@frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk>; Tue, 30 Mar 1993 12:05:42 +0100 To: jitr Subject: Sinead sang at rally Date: Tue, 30 Mar 93 12:05:35 +0100 From: Matthias Radestock Message-Id: <"frigate.do.311:30.02.93.11.05.52"@doc.ic.ac.uk> Status: OR During the rally against violence and terrorism, which took place on last Sunday in Dublin and was triggered by the IRA bomb attack in Warrington which killed 2 children, Sinead O'Connor sang a Franciscan hymn - well known to all Roman Catholics - and was joined by the crowd of ten thousands. She was wearing the green "Irish Princess" T-shirt and a wig (? or was it her own hair !!!??!!). That's all I could figure out during the short report in the TV news. I've also read somewhere that she held a speach. Anyone else who heard of or has seen this? --------------------------------------------------------------- Matthias Radestock rade@freia.inf.tu-dresden.de mr3@doc.ic.ac.uk --------------------------------------------------------------- "I don't associate myself with all of the people I can do without, Those who never leave me in any doubt That there selfish narrow lives are all they care about." --Anne Clark "World Without Warning"-- PS: Marxman's single "Ship Ahoi", featuring Sinead O'Connor singing the backing vocals, is just great. It's longer than 7 minutes and anything but a normal rap song. Lots of Uillean Pipes, fiddles, and a melody which doesn't get out of your mind. And the lyrics - well, listen to it and you'll know why they call themselves Marxman. The album is called "33 Revolutions per minute". From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Tue Mar 30 05:24:56 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA15339; Tue, 30 Mar 93 05:23:59 -0800 Received: from seismo.CSS.GOV by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA15335; Tue, 30 Mar 93 05:23:57 -0800 Received: from beno.CSS.GOV by seismo.CSS.GOV (5.65/1.14) id AA13977; Tue, 30 Mar 93 08:25:55 -0500 Received: by beno.CSS.GOV (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17011; Tue, 30 Mar 93 08:25:53 EST Message-Id: <9303301325.AA17011@beno.CSS.GOV> To: jitr Subject: sinead's rehearsal performance of `war' Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1993 08:25:52 -0500 From: David Comay Status: OR nbc did substitute the rehearsal performance of `war' on the repeat of saturday night live last saturday night (of course!) as was reported in the press last week. for the most part, the song was as powerful as when she performed it in front of the audience later, although she looked away from the camera a number of times which i don't remember her doing more than once in the original broadcast. also, although she held up a picture of a child at the end, she didn't not tear it up (it had been reported that she had - perhaps the reports were incorrect or maybe nbc did some clever bit of censorship, uh, i mean editing ...) dsc From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Wed Mar 31 00:03:27 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA27787; Tue, 30 Mar 93 23:59:43 -0800 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA27728; Tue, 30 Mar 93 23:49:49 -0800 Message-Id: <9303310749.AA27728@presto.ig.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 93 23:49:47 -0800 From: mcb@presto.ig.com (Michael C. Berch) Subject: Re: sinead's rehearsal performance of `war' To: jitr Status: OR David Comay writes: > nbc did substitute the rehearsal performance of `war' on the repeat > of saturday night live last saturday night (of course!) as was > reported in the press last week. for the most part, the song was as > powerful as when she performed it in front of the audience later, > although she looked away from the camera a number of times which i don't > remember her doing more than once in the original broadcast. also, > although she held up a picture of a child at the end, she didn't not tear > it up (it had been reported that she had - perhaps the reports were incorrect > or maybe nbc did some clever bit of censorship, uh, i mean editing ...) I thought the way NBC handled it was pretty slimy, and sort of scary in a way. Evidently they really felt like they couldn't use the original (which was gutless enough), but instead of making an announcement, or just yanking the performance and replacing it with some extra "Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey" :-) or maybe just editing the pope-tearing, they completely faked up a performance using the rehearsal version. They even had Tim Robbins' introduction nicely segue into Sinead on camera, complete with totally natural applause sound-over. And at the end the "audience" applause was again edited in seamlessly, and looked like a "live" performance. And the scary part is what NBC presented was something that *never really happened* but was just a product of video editing technology. It reminded me of the revisionist historians of Orwell's _1984_; NBC can show the rerun again and again, and eventually people will believe that Sinead never really did tear up a picture of the Pope on Saturday Night Live -- we must have just imagined it... At least when something is censored you usually know it has been censored. If I were Sinead I would be rather pissed off, but I am sure there is no legal recourse since the NBC appearance contract undoubtedly allows them to do anything they damn well please with reruns/rehearsal tapes, etc. Grrr. -- Michael C. Berch mcb@presto.ig.com / mcb@net.bio.net From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Wed Mar 31 07:50:58 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA00776; Wed, 31 Mar 93 07:46:45 -0800 Received: from andy.bgsu.edu by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA00770; Wed, 31 Mar 93 07:46:42 -0800 Received: from M248-104.bgsu.edu by andy.bgsu.edu (5.65/4.0) id AA13694 ; Wed, 31 Mar 93 10:48:35 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 10:48:35 -0500 Message-Id: <9303311548.AA13694@andy.bgsu.edu> To: jitr From: mtl2001@andy.bgsu.edu Subject: Re: sinead's rehearsal performance of `war' Status: OR Anybody remember when Saturday Night Live used to have so guts, when they were willing to go ahead with seemingly off-the-wall ideas often with the purpose of shocking the audience. Apparently, the 'guard' of Saturday Night has become an'old guard,' one that is willing to air clever skits that use the word 'penis' 43 times, but cannot seem to ofind the courage to allow Sinead's message onto the air. She is not just some crackpot spouting an unrealistic thought; her claims have some legitimacy. Although Satiurday Night is a "comedy" show (yeah, right), Sinead's opinions had every right to be on that stage. I get more offended watching A. Dice Clay flouting his genetalia, or Bobby Brown prancing along with his ego, all the while boasting about how bad he is and how the women want him, than I would ever get watching Sinead make her beautiful and justified plea against child abuse. Matt From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Wed Mar 31 10:11:39 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA02656; Wed, 31 Mar 93 10:09:10 -0800 Received: from sethsfolly.llnl.gov by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA02652; Wed, 31 Mar 93 10:09:07 -0800 Received: by sethsfolly.llnl.gov (4.1/1.15) id AA00610; Sun, 28 Mar 93 11:39:15 PST Date: Sun, 28 Mar 93 11:39:15 PST From: abrahams@sethsfolly.llnl.gov (Seth Abrahams) Message-Id: <9303281939.AA00610@sethsfolly.llnl.gov> To: jitr Subject: performance Status: OR I am in no way defending what SNL did but maybe if SOC had informed SNL that she wished to protest child abuse by ripping up a picture of the pope prior to the live performance..... Seth From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Wed Mar 31 10:35:40 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA02885; Wed, 31 Mar 93 10:33:40 -0800 Received: from skat.usc.edu by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA02881; Wed, 31 Mar 93 10:33:37 -0800 Received: by skat.usc.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1+ucs-3.6) id AA05577; Wed, 31 Mar 93 10:35:29 PST Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 10:35:29 PST From: aniekan@skat.usc.edu (Aniekan Akpaffiong) Message-Id: <9303311835.AA05577@skat.usc.edu> To: jitr In-Reply-To: Seth Abrahams's message of Sun, 28 Mar 93 11:39:15 PST <9303281939.AA00610@sethsfolly.llnl.gov> Subject: Re: performance Reply-To: aniekan@usc.edu (Aniekan) Status: OR I am in no way defending what SNL did but maybe if SOC had informed SNL that she wished to protest child abuse by ripping up a picture of the pope prior to the live performance..... In a way you are... However, that's an interesting point. The question then becomes is Sinead or any other artist on a show like "Saturday Night Live" required to "clear" all her/his material? It seems like SNL's whole promotional campaign is based on such tactics. For them to attempt to suppress that in others is at the very least questionable. Anyway, I'm not a big fan of SNL, haven't been in the past and I'm even less so now that they "tore" Sinead's picture up. I can protest by saying I will stop watching 'em, I don't think that will make a difference. I'm worried about Sinead. I hope all these negative "vibes" don't affect her too much and that she will continue to express herself and come to the states. :-) _____________________________________________________________________________ INTERNET:aniekan@usc.edu ||"They laugh, 'cos they know they're UUCP:...!uunet!usc!aniekan || untouchable, not because what I said University of Southern California|| was wrong." -- Sinead O'Connor _____________________________________________________________________________ From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Wed Mar 31 11:59:58 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA04116; Wed, 31 Mar 93 11:55:47 -0800 Received: from ACF6.NYU.EDU by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA04112; Wed, 31 Mar 93 11:55:44 -0800 Received: from ACFcluster.NYU.EDU by ACFcluster.NYU.EDU (PMDF #2884 ) id <01GWGN0D7H8WGKU0MA@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU>; Wed, 31 Mar 1993 14:56:19 EDT Date: 31 Mar 1993 14:56:19 -0400 (EDT) From: BANKS@acfcluster.nyu.edu Subject: SNL To: jitr Message-Id: <01GWGN0D7QWIGKU0MA@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU> X-Vms-To: IN%"jitr@presto.ig.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: OR I think the basic point which most of us are missing here is the Sinnead did something very underhanded: she was disceptive with SNL in order to sneak the act on. There are plenty of ways to protest child abuse; they certainly don't have to be childish and disceptive to get people's attention. It's not as if people will refuse to listen to a protest against child abuse. Sinnead needs to lighten up. She's only a musician; her supposed agony over every cause under the sun isn't doing her or anybody else any good. -Andrew From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Wed Mar 31 17:10:00 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA07508; Wed, 31 Mar 93 17:01:37 -0800 Received: from andy.bgsu.edu by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA07504; Wed, 31 Mar 93 17:01:34 -0800 Received: from M248-111.bgsu.edu by andy.bgsu.edu (5.65/4.0) id AA20376 ; Wed, 31 Mar 93 20:03:25 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 20:03:25 -0500 Message-Id: <9304010103.AA20376@andy.bgsu.edu> To: jitr From: mtl2001@andy.bgsu.edu Subject: Re: SNL Status: OR > > I think the basic point which most of us are missing here is the >Sinnead did something very underhanded: she was disceptive with SNL in order >to sneak the act on. There are plenty of ways to protest child abuse; they >certainly don't have to be childish and disceptive to get people's attention. >It's not as if people will refuse to listen to a protest against child abuse. > Sinnead needs to lighten up. She's only a musician; her supposed agony >over every cause under the sun isn't doing her or anybody else any good. > > -Andrew > I would agree, but I think that the convictions which Sinead holds on this subject necessarily called for the extreme measures that she took on SNL. After all, she wasn't just attacking child abuse, a noble cause in iself--she was placing blame on it with the Roman Catholic Church. It is unlikely that any of the mainstream press would do a story on this one of Sinead's opinions just for the hell of it. No one expects, nor wants to turn on the evening news and hear why bald headed rock and roll superstar Sinead O'Connor believes that their church is deeply responsible for child abuse. Likewise, if she were to tell SNL of her 'plans,' they would be sure to either censor them in the first place, or replace Sinead as the musical guest. Many musicians have a social and/or political conscience, and they share it on the stage, even on the SNL stage. Their beliefs may be as simple as "go USA," WE ARE THE WORLD, "peace!", etc, etc, etc. Here's the difference: the social conscience of most musicians is a publicly acceptable one. They offer no shocking revalations, but rather dwell on the mainstream thoughts: "Feed the poor," "Give peace a chance,"--nothing new, eh? If someone were to finish a set on SNL and spontaneously tear in half a picture of Saddam Hussein, no one would cry foul. But when Sinead steps forth and accuses the R.C. church of prompting child abuse she presents to all those listening an 'unthinkable' thought. We aren't supposed to even entertain such thoughts, much less publicly declare them. It's the same kind of mind control that makes it 'unthinkable' to question, for instance, the rightousness of the U.S. destruction of Iraq, and the subsequent deaths of 40,000 Iraqi children because their U.S.-destroyed water purification systems allowed bactreria and microorganisms to contaminate the waters. Similarly, it reflects how the mindless generations of the 50s and 60s simply accepted Communism as the Great Evil because that it what the government says. Any ulterior mode of thought was, again, unthinkable, and punished through the HUAC hearings and blacklisting. I don't expect Sinead to stifle her own beliefs just because they will shock the public. I don't even know whether or not I agree with her. My 'jury' is still out, but I am willing to listen. History shows that some of the best things that have ever happened to mankind initally shocked more than a few people. New ideas are always subject to scrutiny and overt repression, but they are an important aspect of the train of thought that allows man to discern what is truely good for all. We need to read both sides of the page in order to make educated evaluations, and therefore I fully support Sinead in her declaration, however decietful it may have been. That is the basic point to me. Matt From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Wed Mar 31 20:16:35 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA08791; Wed, 31 Mar 93 20:04:26 -0800 Received: from POSTOFFICE.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA08787; Wed, 31 Mar 93 20:04:23 -0800 Received: from [132.236.236.89] (CU-DIALUP-0315.CIT.CORNELL.EDU) by postoffice.mail.cornell.edu with SMTP id AA13387 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for jitr@presto.ig.com); Wed, 31 Mar 1993 23:05:51 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1993 23:05:51 -0500 Message-Id: <199304010405.AA13387@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> X-Mailer: Eudora1.3 To: jitr From: wcj1@cornell.edu (Bill Jenkins) X-Sender: wcj1@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu Subject: Re: SNL Status: OR > I think the basic point which most of us are missing here is the >Sinnead did something very underhanded: she was disceptive with SNL in order >to sneak the act on. There are plenty of ways to protest child abuse; they >certainly don't have to be childish and disceptive to get people's attention. >It's not as if people will refuse to listen to a protest against child abuse. > Sinnead needs to lighten up. She's only a musician; her supposed agony >over every cause under the sun isn't doing her or anybody else any good. > > -Andrew When you hire an artist, you hire an artist. Censorship, artistic freedom, and several other thoughts come to my mind when discussing this. Did Sinead break any laws? I doubt it. So therefore, NBC made a judgement call. BillJ From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Wed Mar 31 20:36:45 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA08869; Wed, 31 Mar 93 20:24:32 -0800 Received: from maurolycus.rutgers.edu by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA08865; Wed, 31 Mar 93 20:24:29 -0800 Received: by maurolycus.rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.5/3.08) id AA04210; Wed, 31 Mar 93 23:18:36 EST Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 23:18:33 EST From: jessica To: BANKS@acfcluster.nyu.edu Cc: jitr Subject: Re: SNL In-Reply-To: Your message of 31 Mar 1993 14:56:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Status: OR Hm, normally i don't respond to much these days, but I just feel like responding to this one. Andrew writes: > I think the basic point which most of us are missing here is the > Sinnead did something very underhanded: she was disceptive with SNL in > order to sneak the act on. There are plenty of ways to protest child > abuse; they certainly don't have to be childish and disceptive to get > people's attention. It's not as if people will refuse to listen to a > protest against child abuse. This sounds very rational, very important to consider, if people are not doing so, they ought to, so i'm glad someone said it. However: > Sinnead needs to lighten up. She's only a musician; her supposed agony > over every cause under the sun isn't doing her or anybody else any good. This seems, um, a bit inappopriate to put together with the first couple of sentences. If you want people to take you seriosuly, you might be more effective by not adding comments that are likely to be inflammatory. to begin with "needs to lighten up" is generally a deragatory and not very thoughtful phrase. You may not have intended to express that, but I have a feeling that's generally how people will interpret it. "She's only a musician" - this is seriously a problem - to being with, why is a musician 'only' anything? Being a musician *can* be being someone very socially 'important'. A musican can affect society in several wasy, one being simply by writing music/lyrics (generally the liyrics, set to socially acceptable/likable music) that convey something important for society. Another is by writing songs for a specific purpose, a benefit, say - like we are the world, etc.. Another is by simply being popular, and then *active* in community/global social issues. In all of these ways a musician can becomes something more than 'only a musician' and can have an impact on society. There are many many musicians who consider themselves 'only musicians' and do not try to make a difference in the world (other than by making a musical impact). However I think Sinead is one who really wants to make a socialogical difference not only through the songs she writes and the music she makes but also in the things she publicly says and does. "her supposed agony" is also inflammatory. It would make a lot more sense, I belive, to say "_I_ get the feeling that her agony over every cause under the sun is..." whatever it is you're trying to imply about it. The real problem I have with this statement is that you are clearly expessing something negative about sinead, but you are *not* being clear about what you are criticising. You apparently beleive she does *not* actually take seriously the causes she says she takes seriously. If this is the case, you simply think she's being dishonest. Better to say that. Seriosuly, I'd prefer to see a real deiscussion delving into what your thoughts an opinions are on sinead's opinions/activism, than a short, too short, statement like this one. I defintiely get the feeling she takes things very seriously, that she's not being dishonest abotu any of that. I think her experiences are limited enough that there appear to her to be very clear causes and effects - it seems to me that she'll react very strongly to things before really thinking about them and working out what may truly be the circumstances. "isn't doing herself or anyone else any good". That I agree with. I hope that she learns *how* to do herself, and others good. jessica || jessica || It is this that || Don't try to tell me there's no reason for || || lawrence || brings us || any moment in time, every memory of mine. || || koeppel || together. || Those years are lines of color on my face, || || dembski || --Kate || the past is warpaint. --Happy Rhodes || From jitr-request@presto.ig.com Wed Mar 31 20:58:52 1993 Received: by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) id AA08995; Wed, 31 Mar 93 20:52:12 -0800 Received: from maurolycus.rutgers.edu by presto.ig.com (5.61/1.15) with SMTP id AA08991; Wed, 31 Mar 93 20:52:10 -0800 Received: by maurolycus.rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.5/3.08) id AA04446; Wed, 31 Mar 93 23:54:07 EST Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 23:54:05 EST From: jessica To: mtl2001@andy.bgsu.edu Cc: jitr Subject: Re: SNL In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 31 Mar 93 20:03:25 -0500 Message-Id: Status: OR Matt, thanks for your comments. I agree with you.. I like what you said. jessica || jessica || It is this that || Don't try to tell me there's no reason for || || lawrence || brings us || any moment in time, every memory of mine. || || koeppel || together. || Those years are lines of color on my face, || || dembski || --Kate || the past is warpaint. --Happy Rhodes ||